Posts belonging to Category 'Window Air Conditioner'

OT: Two poems published

Question:

<gently snipped ::Sorry if this makes no sense, my Lucy pup has been in ::hospital since Friday. Dear Sooz, So sorry about Lucy. She is precious!! I really hope she pulls through. I am rooting for her. (((((Sooz & Lucy))))) Jackie ~*~It takes a real storm in the average person’s life to make him realize how much worrying he has done over the squalls~*~   ~ Bruce Fairchild Barton — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Great job, Deirdre!  Congratulations… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems published, in addition to the one they published last December. Here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php By the way, if you surf the site and see an art exhibit by somebody named Deirdre Walsh, that’s not me — *my* goofy art will be put up on the site later this summer. Thanks for reading, Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

CONGRATULATIONS Deirdre!!!!! Love, Di Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems published, in addition to the one they published last December. Here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php By the way, if you surf the site and see an art exhibit by somebody named Deirdre Walsh, that’s not me — *my* goofy art will be put up on the site later this summer. Thanks for reading, Deirdre

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thank you for your kudos. Much appreciated. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems published, in addition to the one they published last December. Here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php By the way, if you surf the site and see an art exhibit by somebody named Deirdre Walsh, that’s not me — *my* goofy art will be put up on the site later this summer. Thanks for reading, Deirdre

That is so great! I knew you were hoping for that..I had a friend who was a published poet.  Her poems were gross.  Something about puss coming out of a dead dog’s eye (maybe she stole that from Lennon/McCartney).. you write better than she does. Maybe submit some things to some publishers? You have nothing to lose Love you, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems ::published, in addition to the one they published last December. :: ::Here’s the link, if you’re interested: C*O*N*G*R*A*T*U*L*A*T*I*O*N*S!! I read all the poems. They are fantastic. You are so incredibly talented. (((((Deirdre))))) Jackie ~*~It takes a real storm in the average person’s life to make him realize how much worrying he has done over the squalls~*~   ~ Bruce Fairchild Barton — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems published, in addition to the one they published last December. Here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php By the way, if you surf the site and see an art exhibit by somebody named Deirdre Walsh, that’s not me — *my* goofy art will be put up on the site later this summer. Thanks for reading, Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php

Hey, that’s great stuff! Why is everyone getting published and I’m not? I’m lodging an official protest with Fate. :-) Dear Fate: It’s not fair. I want to be published too. Ian :-) Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedburg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems published, in addition to the one they published last December. Here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php By the way, if you surf the site and see an art exhibit by somebody named Deirdre Walsh, that’s not me — *my* goofy art will be put up on the site later this summer. Thanks for reading, Deirdre

Congratulations Deirdre! :) Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems published, in addition to the one they published last December. Here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php By the way, if you surf the site and see an art exhibit by somebody named Deirdre Walsh, that’s not me — *my* goofy art will be put up on the site later this summer. Thanks for reading, Deirdre Very well done!  We will nickname you Longfellow ;-) Jim

Thank you, Jim :-)   "Longwinded" would be more apt, but I’ll take any ego boost I can get! Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

D, I had to laugh about the bells in your poem. When my Mom got her hosp.bed in ‘93 I ordered a METAL, EXTRA LOUD bell that would wake the dead. ( and probly many neighbors.) That’s not a pleasant way to wake up, so, as my brother and his wife traveled I would beg them to bring back a nice quiet bell. Mom liked the bells but they were "too pretty to use, they might break, and were too quiet"!!! Well, when Mom died (I’d give anything to hear that damn bell again) we were all deciding what to put in the coffin with her. My friend Kenny asked if he could put in the bell. At first I thought he just wanted to get rid of it so I could never use it:o ) But as we all put tokens of love in with Mom, Kenny said "You won’t need this anymore, Lil, go dance some polkas with the Pope. But I’d love to see Sue’s face if you rang it when we visited the grave." I haven’t heard it yet, but last night I fell asleep on the couch and ‘heard’ Mom call me. I yelled back "I’ll be right there , Mom." Kenny, who has water stuck in his ear, thought I was talking to him and yelled back"What"? This woke me up and I ran around saying "My Mom called me, I heard my Moms voice"!!! I was so happy. She called me by one of the silly names she had for me.  It was very hard to care for someone 24-7, but Mom was so cool, they were the best years of my life. You are a very good daughter. (Can you get a window air-conditioner for your room)? Sorry if this makes no sense, my Lucy pup has been in hospital since Friday. If you go to www.Flickr.com you can see her picture. She’s a Jackabee. Look under spongemonkey2. I would love to see my first comment from one of you guys.  Love, Sooz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here I am, still overheated but less crabby — I have had two poems published, in addition to the one they published last December. Here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://turbula.net/poetry/index.php By the way, if you surf the site and see an art exhibit by somebody named Deirdre Walsh, that’s not me — *my* goofy art will be put up on the site later this summer. Thanks for reading, Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Three cats in a one bedroom apartment

Question:

Count me on the side of being patient and letting them eventually work things out. I’d have to go back and check my postings to determine just when I first brought Spot and her babies inside out of a storm, but I’m still keeping them in separate rooms when I’m not here to supervise. The only thing I’d suggest that it doesn’t sound like you’re already doing is rotating rooms. My apartment isn’t exactly ideal for integrating newbies – just a small one bedroom apartment. Sometimes LB and Sammy are in the bedroom/bathroom with Spot in the living room/kitchen, sometimes Spot in the bedroom/bathroom and my girls out in the LR. I still have hopes that Sam and Spot may eventually become friendly, but doubt that LB will ever do more than tolerate Spot’s existence. Course she was the same way with Rocky (RB) when I brought him inside, and that was after knowing and getting along with Rocky in the OUT. It was a couple months before she’d stay in the same room with him, but eventually they could be found napping fairly close – though it never got to the point where they’d play or groom each other. Though I’d like to someday see them all cuddled up together, I’ll be satisfied if I can leave them alone in the same room without being afraid of them fighting. Otherwise, I may have to invest in a window air conditioner, since SW Oklahoma does get kind of warm, and the only A/C / heater is in the living room, and it get’s a might warm and stuffy for whoever is locked away in the bedroom during the day. Anyway, purrs that your three soon get along well enough to be left together. — Steve Touchstone, faithful servant of Sammy, Little Bit and the Evil Spot with loving memories of Rocky (RB) Home Page: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html Cat Pix: http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/animals.html

Response:

<snip story of new cats fighting Allowing the cats to have contact after only the second day is a huge mistake and you are seeing the horrible results.You’re pushing these cats way too fast. They’ve already been traumatized by being in a strange place with strange person/animal and forcing them into meeting your cat when they haven’t even had a chance to settle in for awhile is extremely unfair to them and is putting too much on them. It’s alsotraumatic for your cat as her territory has been invaded and her routine upset. Now you’ve had fighting, which has traumatized them more and makes it even more difficult to create a situation where these cats can all get along. You need to start over and give these cats some time to adjust before you even think about starting the introduction process. Leave them completely separated for a week, and after a few days, IF they are starting to seem relaxed, you can rotate rooms for a short period of time and they can explore the rest of your place while your resident cat is closed into the room they ar in so she can check it out.You should also then temporarily replace the door to their room with a screen door so the cats can see and smell each other but not fight, and start feeding the cats on either side of the door to create a posiitve association with each others presence.  Once you get to a point where they seem fairly relaxed when they are in close proximity to each other by the door, you can start allowing them to have short *supervised* meetings. Never yell at the cats when they hiss or swat as they will associate getting yelled at with the other cat and it will make matters worse. Instead just gently intervene and move the offender out of the situation. Here’s a good article that describes the basics of introducing cats: http://catsinternational.org/articles/getting_a_cat/good_introduction… Cat introductions take time, and thinking you can just let them "work it out" results in a lot of stress, fighting, and probable injury, which are all unnecessary and unfair to the cats. You can avoid that by being patient and takling several weeks to integrate then properly with as litlle stress as possible. If you allow things to go on as is, they will probably never become friends and you will have a very unhappy household. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." – W.H. Murray

Response:

I have all three cats now. My Princess Rita, and my friend’s Spot and Orca(t).  So far the other two are locked in the bedroom with food, water, and a litter box, and Rita has the rest of the apartment.   Saturday evening they came in, Rita sniffed at their carriers, then they were rushed into the bedroom to relax. It was a rather traumatic move, since they fought very hard to not be caught and carried. To make it worse, Orca(t) remembers me only as That Bad Lady Who Holds Me and Clips My Claws.  Spot is just scared of everybody anyway, except mommy. They have food with a drop of Rescue Remedy in it, and the feliway infuser is plugged into the bedroom wall. Last night after I got home, I opened the bedroom door and just left it.  Spot is under the bed as far away as he can get, and hasn’t moved. I’m not sure if he’s even eaten yet.  Orca(t) is out and about, but only in the bedroom.  Rita went into the bedroom and hissed a little, but she jumped on the bed and held a little conversation with Orca(t). I thought they were going to be okay.   Then I went to bed.  Just as I was dropping off to sleep, I was awakened by a hissspit cat fight under the bed!  Spot is VERY angry at Rita, and Orca(t) is defending his brother, so after two of those, I had to lock Rita out of the room for the night. I think Spot is especially nervous because he’s declawed. Orca(t) and Rita would have been all right, but Spot needs extra help. Any suggestions to help them get along better, or am I just going to have to be more patient? After all, it’s only been two days. They have their favorite food, and a couple of items from home with their smell on it, including a comforter under the bed that they used at home, so I’m hoping that they’ll feel more relaxed eventually.  Meanwhile, unless I want to sleep on the couch, I have to sleep without my Rita.  *sniff* Jane – owned and operated by Princess Rita, Spot, and Orca(t)

Response:

air conditioning

Question:

Could somebody tell me the definition of the terms: C60 and CJ3 as applied to air conditioning for a 1995 Chevy Lumina? What are they and how do I know I have either one of these? Thanks

Response:

Could somebody tell me the definition of the terms: C60 and CJ3 as applied to air conditioning for a 1995 Chevy Lumina? What are they and how do I know I have either one of these? Thanks

http://www.wiu.edu/users/muwtj1/rpocodes.htm If the codes are listed on the RPO tag (probably in he trunk) , the vehicle is equipped as such.

Response:

Without doing any research and just right off the top of my head, I believe the CJ3 is the manual dual-zone climate control with seperate temperature sliders for the driver and passenger. The C60 is the manual single-zone climate control with only one rotary temperature knob. Roger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could somebody tell me the definition of the terms: C60 and CJ3 as applied to air conditioning for a 1995 Chevy Lumina? What are they and how do I know I have either one of these? Thanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners? The smell is from moisture condensing on the evaperator coil, and thingies growing in the moisture. Mildew, stuff like that. Some find that zspraying something like Lysol in the air inlets at the base of the windshield helps, but then it smells like Lysol. :-( You can minimise this by turning the AC off a few minutes before you park; this will dry the coils. Doesn’t work for me!   Having the temp control anywhere but on the coldest setting allow air in through both the warming exchanger and the cooling exchanger.  It’s left there a lot.   IF it is moisture in the cooler that causes the smell, I can guarantee this:   mine gets dried out a whole lot, but the next time I turn on the AC — even MONTHS later, it smells. . . . . It ONLY happens when I turn on the AC system, which enables the compressor. What could make that happen? Condensation. That’s where the water on the evap coils comes from. I should have been a little more detailed; just turning the AC off may not do the trick. It helps if you leave the system set to "Vent", to ensure outside air passes over the damp coils to dry them off. Also, leaving the system at "Vent" when leaving the vehicle also lets outside air circulate over the coils, helping to keep them dry. That’s what I meant….. the system is either in "heat" or "vent" for months at a time, with the temp set anywhere from full cold to full hot — it varies a lot. The thing HAS to get dried out!

If so, where’s the smell coming from? Water’s getting there somehow. And some individual systems still smell. Probably because the drain vent isn’t working right, and water puddles at the bottom of the housing.

Mexicans? Canadians? — Bill Replace "g" with "a" Experience is what you get when you expected something else.

Response:

Cats dissing in the vents?!?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners? The smell is from moisture condensing on the evaperator coil, and thingies growing in the moisture. Mildew, stuff like that. Some find that zspraying something like Lysol in the air inlets at the base of the windshield helps, but then it smells like Lysol. :-( You can minimise this by turning the AC off a few minutes before you park; this will dry the coils. Doesn’t work for me!   Having the temp control anywhere but on the coldest setting allow air in through both the warming exchanger and the cooling exchanger.  It’s left there a lot. IF it is moisture in the cooler that causes the smell, I can guarantee this:   mine gets dried out a whole lot, but the next time I turn on the AC — even MONTHS later, it smells. . . . . It ONLY happens when I turn on the AC system, which enables the compressor. What could make that happen? Condensation. That’s where the water on the evap coils comes from. I should have been a little more detailed; just turning the AC off may not do the trick. It helps if you leave the system set to "Vent", to ensure outside air passes over the damp coils to dry them off. Also, leaving the system at "Vent" when leaving the vehicle also lets outside air circulate over the coils, helping to keep them dry. That’s what I meant….. the system is either in "heat" or "vent" for months at a time, with the temp set anywhere from full cold to full hot — it varies a lot. The thing HAS to get dried out! And some individual systems still smell. Probably because the drain vent isn’t working right, and water puddles at the bottom of the housing. Alan Moorman

Response:

Yeh,  on a 62 Biscayne maybe…. ;) In today’s sue sue sue society, if there were ANY danger from running on MAX for long periods of time, FORD would disable the feature ! Of course, it depends on where you live, but here in Las Vegas, when it’s 115 outside I guarantee you that pretty much every working A/C in an auto is on MAX all summer !

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It used to be recommended not to run on recirculate all the time with all the windows closed because if your exhaust system had a leak under the vehicle’s body some carbon monoxide or whatever, might make it’s way into the cabin like say through a body seam or whatever. So the advice was not to run in recirculate mode for long periods of time or if you do, then open the windows every once in awhile or switch to normal A/C once in a while while in recirculate mode. what are the safety reason? Ive always run my AC on MAX A/C since i got my explorer. Confused, Erik The stagnant air is most likely mildew on the A/C evaporator core, air blows through the core and will pick up an odor. To help cut down on other vehicle’s exhuast or other outside foul odor from being drawn in when driving through foul area set the A/C to "Max A/C" (aka "recirculate" mode) in this mode the A/C system recirculates cabin air instead of outside air. However, don’t leave it in this mode longer than necessary for safey reasons. 1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners? The smell is from moisture condensing on the evaperator coil, and thingies growing in the moisture. Mildew, stuff like that. Some find that zspraying something like Lysol in the air inlets at the base of the windshield helps, but then it smells like Lysol. :-( You can minimise this by turning the AC off a few minutes before you park; this will dry the coils. Doesn’t work for me!   Having the temp control anywhere but on the coldest setting allow air in through both the warming exchanger and the cooling exchanger.  It’s left there a lot.   IF it is moisture in the cooler that causes the smell, I can guarantee this:   mine gets dried out a whole lot, but the next time I turn on the AC — even MONTHS later, it smells. . . . . It ONLY happens when I turn on the AC system, which enables the compressor. What could make that happen?

Condensation. That’s where the water on the evap coils comes from. I should have been a little more detailed; just turning the AC off may not do the trick. It helps if you leave the system set to "Vent", to ensure outside air passes over the damp coils to dry them off. Also, leaving the system at "Vent" when leaving the vehicle also lets outside air circulate over the coils, helping to keep them dry. And some individual systems still smell. Probably because the drain vent isn’t working right, and water puddles at the bottom of the housing. — Bill Replace "g" with "a" Experience is what you get when you expected something else.

Response:

I believe that by leaving your system on recirculate you will have colder AC, if you run on outside air the system will need to cool warmer air each time. Like your house you would not cut an outside vent by your return air vent, or leave your doors open. You want the air to recirculate over and over so to be cooler with each cycle and cost much less in energy bills..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The stagnant air is most likely mildew on the A/C evaporator core, air blows through the core and will pick up an odor. To help cut down on other vehicle’s exhuast or other outside foul odor from being drawn in when driving through foul area set the A/C to "Max A/C" (aka "recirculate" mode) in this mode the A/C system recirculates cabin air instead of outside air. However, don’t leave it in this mode longer than necessary for safey reasons. 1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners?

Response:

It used to be recommended not to run on recirculate all the time with all the windows closed because if your exhaust system had a leak under the vehicle’s body some carbon monoxide or whatever, might make it’s way into the cabin like say through a body seam or whatever. So the advice was not to run in recirculate mode for long periods of time or if you do, then open the windows every once in awhile or switch to normal A/C once in a while while in recirculate mode. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are the safety reason? Ive always run my AC on MAX A/C since i got my explorer. Confused, Erik The stagnant air is most likely mildew on the A/C evaporator core, air blows through the core and will pick up an odor. To help cut down on other vehicle’s exhuast or other outside foul odor from being drawn in when driving through foul area set the A/C to "Max A/C" (aka "recirculate" mode) in this mode the A/C system recirculates cabin air instead of outside air. However, don’t leave it in this mode longer than necessary for safey reasons. 1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners?

Response:

1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners?

Response:

The stagnant air is most likely mildew on the A/C evaporator core, air blows through the core and will pick up an odor. To help cut down on other vehicle’s exhuast or other outside foul odor from being drawn in when driving through foul area set the A/C to "Max A/C" (aka "recirculate" mode) in this mode the A/C system recirculates cabin air instead of outside air. However, don’t leave it in this mode longer than necessary for safey reasons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners?

Response:

what are the safety reason? Ive always run my AC on MAX A/C since i got my explorer. Confused, Erik

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The stagnant air is most likely mildew on the A/C evaporator core, air blows through the core and will pick up an odor. To help cut down on other vehicle’s exhuast or other outside foul odor from being drawn in when driving through foul area set the A/C to "Max A/C" (aka "recirculate" mode) in this mode the A/C system recirculates cabin air instead of outside air. However, don’t leave it in this mode longer than necessary for safey reasons. 1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners?

Response:

1998 explorer, 93,000 km. When running the airconditioner this summer, I am noticing a stagnant air type-of-smell coming through for 5 to 10 minutes. This usually disipates but it seems to be taking longer and longer to clear. The airconditioner was last serviced at 50,000 km. It is coming up on another major service shedule at 100,000 km. Do you think that’s all that will be needed to clear this problem? Anything in particular I should ask the service manager? Or is it something else? A lesser, secondary problem has always been the drawing in of other vehicles exhaust odors [particularly those I'm 'following' on the road] whether through normal use of fan/venting or using the airconditoner. Sometimes I have had to completely turn the air vent to ‘off’ when coming up on diesel vehicles or cars burning oil. Is that the average for other Explorer owners?

The smell is from moisture condensing on the evaperator coil, and thingies growing in the moisture. Mildew, stuff like that. Some find that zspraying something like Lysol in the air inlets at the base of the windshield helps, but then it smells like Lysol. :-( You can minimise this by turning the AC off a few minutes before you park; this will dry the coils. The outside odors are normal; you’re drawing in outside air! It’s not just a characteristic of Explorers, it’s all vehicles. You can turn the AC to MAX, which will recirculate the inside air. Doing this, though, can lead to some pretty stale air inside the cabin on long trips. Not dangerous, as some outside air will still get in, but not much. The cabin isn’t airtight. Hope this helps. — Bill Replace "g" with "a" Experience is what you get when you expected something else.

Response:

I have a 94 2.3L and I just moved to Florida.  My truck doesn’t have a/c, and I want to install it.  The cheapest I’ve found is a kit for about a $1000.00.  Is that about the going rate, or does somebody know a cheaper place to buy one. Any help concerning this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Thats the going rate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 94 2.3L and I just moved to Florida.  My truck doesn’t have a/c, and I want to install it.  The cheapest I’ve found is a kit for about a $1000.00.  Is that about the going rate, or does somebody know a cheaper place to buy one. Any help concerning this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Does anyone know whether it is possible to have air conditioning fitted to your used Audi. I have an A3 which is 1 1/2 years old and would quite like to have it fitted. Anyone had this done? Jonathan.

Response:

Does anyone know whether it is possible to have air conditioning fitted to your used Audi. I have an A3 which is 1 1/2 years old and would quite like to have it fitted. Anyone had this done?

No, and I wouldn’t want to.  Given current auto designs, there just isn’t a way to retrofit a/c without things getting really ‘ugly’, IMO. I’d look for a different car WITH a/c. — C.R. Krieger "Ignore ‘em, m’dear; they’re beneath your dignity." – W.C. Fields Reply to warp1 at lakefield dot net

Response:

I just bought an Audi A3 1.8T. It’s 11/2 year old. Next week an official Audi dealer is making an ECC (Electromic Climate Control) in my car. They assured me that is looks just as an original. When it’s ready I’ll give you the details. CU Maarten

Response:

Hi Susan, Try using the air conditioner on high for about an hour to eliminate the humidity.  Make sure the vents on the air conditioner are closed so that air from outside cannot enter.  After all the humidity is gone, you can turn the air conditioner to a lower speed so that you will still take the humidity down without making it so cold. The cold really bothers me and I have found that after I get rid of the moisture the best thing to do is keep the rooms at 76 degrees with the windows shut. Stay well, Fred

Response:

<snipped<< Try using the air conditioner on high for about an hour to eliminate the humidity.  Make sure the vents on the air conditioner are closed so that air from outside cannot enter.  After all the humidity is gone, you can turn the air conditioner to a lower speed so that you will still take the humidity down without making it so cold. Also make sure the filter is clean… you’d be surprised how fast they get dirty and clogged up.

Response:

Thanks folks for your comments both here in the newsgroup and via e-mail. Seems the recommendations are         that I keep the humidity as low as possible, hence my using both the air conditioner and de-humidifier … my apartment is VERY damp         and keep the air temperature in the mid 70’s (F) if possible also suggested was that I use a blanket any time that I lie down in the cooler airconditioned area … and of course stay out of drafts … Through the fog these are the ones I remember … further suggestions greatly appreciated … :) Thanks ttfn and cusuen Susan

Response:

My question … have any of you any stories of which is easier to handle … the humidity or the coolness from the air conditioner … ?

This is my rather unorthodox solution.  It works for me.  I can’t tolerate airconditioning at all.  The dry cold air makes my joints ache and disturbs my sleep.  On the other hand, when it gets really hot and humid I don’t sleep well and my poor DH can’t sleep at all.  I solved the problem by using the airconditioning set at 78 and leaving a bedroom window open part way.

Response:

. My thought has been that it is a combination of draft and the fact that it gets rather cold (often 18-20 degrees C., I guess) that cause problems. I don`t know if adjusting it to e.g. 25-27 degrees C.

In the past I have traveled a lot to the said hot Countries. Also here in Athens/Greece we do have some very hot days. I always turn the AC to 24 C. Hope this would solve your problems. Kind regards Edward Edward Aloskofis Athens/Greece

Response:

This is a plea for any thoughts from you folk. My apartment is rather humid and hot during the summer months.  I must say that I have used my window air conditioner in one bedroom and a dehumidifier in the living room.  It seems that being a ground floor apartment with nothing but concrete below me that right now things are rather damp. My question … have any of you any stories of which is easier to handle … the humidity or the coolness from the air conditioner … ? Last night I found that I did not have the air conditioner on and the dehumidifier container was full this morning when I got up.  I did not sleep well and I sorta think it was because of the humidity.  This afternoon I fell asleep in the air conditioned room and although I slept I did wake up with a couple of extra pains that I didn’t have earlier.  I wasn’t sleeping in the draft from the air conditioner either.  I can see that that would cause a problem. I do not handle humidity well and look forward to the air conditioning but this afternoon startled me no end.  This is the first summer since the diagnosis and treatment has been started for rheumatoid arthritis although I have had osteoarthritis for a while. Any assistance appreciated please. Take care and regards.  ttfn and cusuen Susan

Response:

Hi, Susan! I don

more newzzz

Question:

Ms Pnoopie Pnats <myblowuprejecte…@blowup.com> wrote in news:e8cad1ce7430733182aca7b606dc19f7@news.teranews.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If I can rememmber what I wuz going to say without 50 million > distractions. > my nerves are botherin me this mourning. > We finalee took teh window air conditioner ober to mah sisters and a > copee of xp pro. > We justt caem in teh back way and dropped teh stuff off on her porch > and ran! he he he > Later herz calls me up and says she is having trouble with teh > installation. > not only am I teh family crisis helper but I am teh family tech > support. Luckee me! > She failed to tell me she already tried to install. > Anyway she didn’t bother to ask me if I had time to help her. She juss > starts right in with HER PROBLEM!

Doesnt that online installation thing with xp pro make it so MS knows if your copy is legit? > but like a frickin gud sista I hepped her

Practice saying "listen, I would love to help but I have to go." > Tinking abowt teh fnast agane, I am going to do a one day religiouss > fnast once per month.

I read that talking about your fasting negates any spiritual advantage of fasting. > Oh I had to axe teh frickin aol becawse teh SOB kept knickin me offine > everree fuckin 3 minutes. LIteralleee!

AOL is the suck. You might could have fun posting to alt.hackers.aol.sucks > my new computer weill not hace aol eber! > neber eber agane! > teh kidz hace there own computerz and they can stay off mine

I would get my kid a computer of his own but he already doesnt get enough fresh air. -phy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 30 May 2004 15:19:14 -0000, phy <phy…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Ms Pnoopie Pnats <myblowuprejecte…@blowup.com> wrote in >news:e8cad1ce7430733182aca7b606dc19f7@news.teranews.com: >> If I can rememmber what I wuz going to say without 50 million >> distractions. >> my nerves are botherin me this mourning. >> We finalee took teh window air conditioner ober to mah sisters and a >> copee of xp pro. >> We justt caem in teh back way and dropped teh stuff off on her porch >> and ran! he he he >> Later herz calls me up and says she is having trouble with teh >> installation. >> not only am I teh family crisis helper but I am teh family tech >> support. Luckee me! >> She failed to tell me she already tried to install. >> Anyway she didn’t bother to ask me if I had time to help her. She juss >> starts right in with HER PROBLEM! >Doesnt that online installation thing with xp pro make it so MS knows if >your copy is legit?

It iz a legit os. I get free or almost free softwaree frum my college. >> but like a frickin gud sista I hepped her >Practice saying "listen, I would love to help but I have to go."

I finallee said that wen she started telling me teh percetages of it loading and I wuznt abowt to sit there and listen to that shit. >> Tinking abowt teh fnast agane, I am going to do a one day religiouss >> fnast once per month. >I read that talking about your fasting negates any spiritual advantage of >fasting.

that could be >> Oh I had to axe teh frickin aol becawse teh SOB kept knickin me offine >> everree fuckin 3 minutes. LIteralleee! >AOL is the suck. You might could have fun posting to alt.hackers.aol.sucks

it totalee suks. Teh ONLEE reeson I kept it wuz fer teh kidz. It suks! this machine I am on suks too. :) >> my new computer weill not hace aol eber! >> neber eber agane! >> teh kidz hace there own computerz and they can stay off mine >I would get my kid a computer of his own but he already doesnt get enough >fresh air.

yeah no what u meen abowt that.  if there wuz a kitcen in heems bedroom, he wood neber come owt. :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->-phy

Response:

If I can rememmber what I wuz going to say without 50 million distractions. my nerves are botherin me this mourning. We finalee took teh window air conditioner ober to mah sisters and a copee of xp pro. We justt caem in teh back way and dropped teh stuff off on her porch and ran! he he he Later herz calls me up and says she is having trouble with teh installation. not only am I teh family crisis helper but I am teh family tech support. Luckee me! She failed to tell me she already tried to install. Anyway she didn’t bother to ask me if I had time to help her. She juss starts right in with HER PROBLEM! but like a frickin gud sista I hepped her Tinking abowt teh fnast agane, I am going to do a one day religiouss fnast once per month. Oh I had to axe teh frickin aol becawse teh SOB kept knickin me offine everree fuckin 3 minutes. LIteralleee! my new computer weill not hace aol eber! neber eber agane! teh kidz hace there own computerz and they can stay off mine

Response:

Question about Window AC unit

Question:

I’m not a big fan of forums, but I will check this as I remember, so if you could, email me with some tips? Thanks! I really don’t care for all of the technical jargon, so there is no need to type up smething really long. How much does a Window ac unit cost to run on average? In terms of electricity? 1$ an hour? My room is real small and I can keep the door shut so it won’t really effect the central AC. I have a cpu and a couple other things in my room (like a halogen lamp) that put off a BUTTLOAD of heat, so my room always seems to be 5-10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. I’ve done some research and some say it’s between 5-10 cents to run a small unit for a small room per kilowatt hour. Does that sound about right?

Response:

Your window air conditioner won’t use anything like $1 an hour to run.  Your outlet can only give you 15A typically so the max wattage available would be 1800 watts.  running it for an entire hour would therefore be 1.8 kw-hours worth of electricity used. Most people pay less than 10 cents per kw-hr, so for most people an hour of a window a/c unit running will amount to 10 to 20 cents, depending on your cost of electricity and how much juice it actually requires.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not a big fan of forums, but I will check this as I remember, so if you could, email me with some tips? Thanks! I really don’t care for all of the technical jargon, so there is no need to type up smething really long. How much does a Window ac unit cost to run on average? In terms of electricity? 1$ an hour? My room is real small and I can keep the door shut so it won’t really effect the central AC. I have a cpu and a couple other things in my room (like a halogen lamp) that put off a BUTTLOAD of heat, so my room always seems to be 5-10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. I’ve done some research and some say it’s between 5-10 cents to run a small unit for a small room per kilowatt hour. Does that sound about right?

Response:

My room is real small and I can keep the door shut so it won’t really effect the central AC. I have a cpu and a couple other things in my room (like a halogen lamp) that put off a BUTTLOAD of heat, so my room always seems to be 5-10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. I’ve done some research and some say it’s between 5-10 cents to run a small unit for a small room per kilowatt hour.

You might consider trying to reduce your need for cooling in your space. Replace those halogen and incandescent lamps with CFs.  Configure your computer to take advantage of its power-saver features.  Weather permitting, open a window to exhaust hot air.  Ceiling fans can make a room feel cooler at a fraction of the cost of actually making it cooler. Aside from that: If I had the largest AC unit that I can safely power from a standard outlet, at the current price of power in my area it would cost me 11.35 cents/hour to run. -Scott

Response:

A Sears  Kenmore 8000 BTU Room Air Conditioner, Sears item #02275088000 Mfr. model #75088 uses approximately 555 kWh’s / year, depending on climate. More specifically, it draws 740 watts while in cooling mode. You figure out your runtimes, but it removes 8,000 BTUs/hr. If you pay $0.10 / kWh (check your power bill), then this unit might run you $56 / year, more or less, but no more than $0.074 an hour (at $0.10 / kWh) — Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Donate $30 or more to Green Trust, and receive a copy of Joshua Tickell’s "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank", the premier documentary of biodiesel and vegetable oil powered diesels.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not a big fan of forums, but I will check this as I remember, so if you could, email me with some tips? Thanks! I really don’t care for all of the technical jargon, so there is no need to type up smething really long. How much does a Window ac unit cost to run on average? In terms of electricity? 1$ an hour? My room is real small and I can keep the door shut so it won’t really effect the central AC. I have a cpu and a couple other things in my room (like a halogen lamp) that put off a BUTTLOAD of heat, so my room always seems to be 5-10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. I’ve done some research and some say it’s between 5-10 cents to run a small unit for a small room per kilowatt hour. Does that sound about right?

Response:

says… A Sears  Kenmore 8000 BTU Room Air Conditioner, Sears item #02275088000 Mfr. model #75088 uses approximately 555 kWh’s / year, depending on climate. More specifically, it draws 740 watts while in cooling mode. You figure out your runtimes, but it removes 8,000 BTUs/hr. If you pay $0.10 / kWh (check your power bill), then this unit might run you $56 / year, more or less, but no more than $0.074 an hour (at $0.10 / kWh)

If the room is really small, the OP should consider this instead: Sears item #02272059000 Mfr. model #72059 Uses approximately 383 kWh / year = $39/year 5,700 BTU/hr, draws 510 watts cooling. It has an EER of 11.2, vs. the #75088 at 10.8. It is almost always better to be slightly undersized in terms of heat capacity, as this leads to better dehumidification and less cycling. –Gene

Response:

It is almost always better to be slightly undersized in terms of heat capacity, as this leads to better dehumidification and less cycling.

I slept in a hotel room once where the A/C unit kept freezing up, which I thought was due to the fact it was undersized.  Maybe it was way too undersized? — William Smith ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc.    www.compusmiths.com

Response:

I slept in a hotel room once where the A/C unit kept freezing up, which I thought was due to the fact it was undersized.  Maybe it was way too undersized?

     More likely it was just low on Freon. Vaughn

Response:

I slept in a hotel room once where the A/C unit kept freezing up, which I thought was due to the fact it was undersized.  Maybe it was way too undersized?      More likely it was just low on Freon. Vaughn

Or the filter was very dirty.

Response:

My room is real small and I can keep the door shut so it won’t really effect the central AC. I have a cpu and a couple other things in my room (like a halogen lamp) that put off a BUTTLOAD of heat, so my room always seems to be 5-10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. I’ve done some research and some say it’s between 5-10 cents to run a small unit for a small room per kilowatt hour. Does that sound about right?

A very typical small window A/C is 5,000BTUs, with an EER (Energy Efficiency Rating) of 10 (also typical) so it would use 500watt/hrs (

post vs stick hangar construction

Question:

I was wishing for 62 x 40, but $$$ got in the way, or should I say lack of $$$. I wanted to be sure the PT17 would fit, if I ever find one. For now it is just a big open space – room of dreams! — Dan D. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the need ever arise). 8^) Del Rawlins- Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Response:

Did you consider solar?

Durapex (http://www.durapex.com/heating.asp), from Menards here in MI. I will use a 70,000 BTU water heater for the heat source. I figured out how to put some pix up on my Yahoo account. See: — Dan D. .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Dan, What radiant system did you use ??  I am also building up in NH.  Moving from FL back to the snowbelt. My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used a product from Home Depot (can’t remember what it was and I have never had a problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other  owners here had. My hangar in NH will be 48×60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week. Merle I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring… — Dan D. . Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles…. I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete. The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone with a pole type construction finished in the same manner. The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat wall is thermal isolation.  I’d put a thermal barrier between the floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead board or styrofoam. Even with the two big doors plus the man door it’s quite economical to heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air conditioner in the hot summer. The shop is just north of my garage, but I’m based at 3BS (Midland) which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS. The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

Indeed that is the plan. I know the 70,000 is close, but I don’t plan to keep it at 70. As long as it stays above 40 I will be happy. Good idea about the supplemental heater… I hope the building is very proud in a couple of years…. — Dan D. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you consider solar?  Are you kidding?  How many square feet of collectors would it take to get 70,000 BTU’s? I really think that 70,000 BTU’s may be calling it close.  May have to put another 40,000 unit in to help on the bad days. Nice job.  Build something in there to make your building proud! — Jim in NC

Response:

My shop is 60 X 60 X 14 with in floor radiant heat.  It has no problem at all staying warm with a 100,000 btu boiler.  One thing you need to remember is with radiant floor heat you will not have the thermostat set as high, you don’t need to.  When we first turned ours on we set it at 70 and that was too warm.  Sweating warm when we were working on something.  We now leave it on about 60 or so. John Stricker I have all kinds of pictures of the shop construction, but nowhere to host them so screw it.  8-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you consider solar?  Are you kidding?  How many square feet of collectors would it take to get 70,000 BTU’s? I really think that 70,000 BTU’s may be calling it close.  May have to put another 40,000 unit in to help on the bad days. Nice job.  Build something in there to make your building proud! — Jim in NC

Response:

Yes, not cost effective this far north… — Dan D. . Did you consider solar? Durapex (http://www.durapex.com/heating.asp), from Menards here in MI. I will use a 70,000 BTU water heater for the heat source. I figured out how to put some pix up on my Yahoo account. See:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Dan D. . Hi Dan, What radiant system did you use ??  I am also building up in NH.  Moving from FL back to the snowbelt. My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used a product from Home Depot (can’t remember what it was and I have never had a problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other  owners here had. My hangar in NH will be 48×60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week. Merle I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring… — Dan D. . Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles…. I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete. The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone with a pole type construction finished in the same manner. The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat wall is thermal isolation.  I’d put a thermal barrier between the floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead board or styrofoam. Even with the two big doors plus the man door it’s quite economical to heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air conditioner in the hot summer. The shop is just north of my garage, but I’m based at 3BS (Midland) which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS. The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

Hi Dan, What radiant system did you use ??  I am also building up in NH.  Moving from FL back to the snowbelt. My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used a product from Home Depot (can’t remember what it was and I have never had a problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other  owners here had. My hangar in NH will be 48×60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week.

I put in a 75,000 BTU IR tube heater. It heats all the objects in the room. You open the door in the winter, drive in, shut the doors and it’s warm … Tools are comfortable to handle in the mornings. Costs less than half to heat as my house even with the two big garage doors. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

Did you consider solar?

 Are you kidding?  How many square feet of collectors would it take to get 70,000 BTU’s? I really think that 70,000 BTU’s may be calling it close.  May have to put another 40,000 unit in to help on the bad days. Nice job.  Build something in there to make your building proud! — Jim in NC

Response:

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the need ever arise).

And if that DeHavilland’ll fit, it _otter_ be adequate for anything else!

Response:

Hi Dan, What radiant system did you use ??  I am also building up in NH.  Moving from FL back to the snowbelt. My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used a product from Home Depot (can’t remember what it was and I have never had a problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other  owners here had. My hangar in NH will be 48×60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week. Merle

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting

to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon

before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring… — Dan D. .

Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x

the cost of the poles…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete. The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone with a pole type construction finished in the same manner. The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat wall is thermal isolation.  I’d put a thermal barrier between the floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead board or styrofoam. Even with the two big doors plus the man door it’s quite economical to heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air conditioner in the hot summer. The shop is just north of my garage, but I’m based at 3BS (Midland) which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS. The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

Durapex (http://www.durapex.com/heating.asp), from Menards here in MI. I will use a 70,000 BTU water heater for the heat source. I figured out how to put some pix up on my Yahoo account. — Dan D. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Dan, What radiant system did you use ??  I am also building up in NH.  Moving from FL back to the snowbelt. My hangar here is 46 x 60 x 12 and I used muriac acid to etch and then used a product from Home Depot (can’t remember what it was and I have never had a problem with it. Never got the tire marks like other  owners here had. My hangar in NH will be 48×60x14 with radiant heat. Just finished the foundation walls yesterday and laying the insulation next week. Merle I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring… — Dan D. . Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles…. I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete. The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone with a pole type construction finished in the same manner. The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat wall is thermal isolation.  I’d put a thermal barrier between the floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead board or styrofoam. Even with the two big doors plus the man door it’s quite economical to heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air conditioner in the hot summer. The shop is just north of my garage, but I’m based at 3BS (Midland) which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS. The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now

getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon

before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring… First I pressure washed it, then acid etch followed by another wash. Gave it 3 days to dry with the heat on, and then gave it three coats of 2-part epoxy from Lowe’s.  Other than that I used no sealers. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Right.  Make sure to use no sealer, as that could interfere with the epoxy. Best to wait 30 days to put down any epoxy, to let the concrete finish 99% of its cure. — Jim in NC

Response:

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the need ever arise). 8^) Del Rawlins-

  If I built the 48′, and got a Beaver, I would gladly go through any necessary gyrations! <g< — Jim in NC

Response:

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them…

If you make it 2 feet wider, you will be able to get a DeHavilland Beaver through the door without any diagonal monkey motion (should the need ever arise). 8^) Del Rawlins- Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Response:

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting

to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them…

Green is me, with envy.   Post the pictures in alt.appalachian.binaries, Dan, then announce here that you’ve posted them. Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon

before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Dan D.

Response:

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring…

First I pressure washed it, then acid etch followed by another wash. Gave it 3 days to dry with the heat on, and then gave it three coats of 2-part epoxy from Lowe’s.  Other than that I used no sealers. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

I am putting up a 48×48 ‘hanger’ with radiant heat floor. Just now getting to the wiring stage. I’ve got pictures of the construction but no where to post them… Roger, what did you seal/paint the floor with? I need to do that soon before it gets too cold or wait ’till spring… — Dan D. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles…. I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete. The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone with a pole type construction finished in the same manner. The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat wall is thermal isolation.  I’d put a thermal barrier between the floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead board or styrofoam. Even with the two big doors plus the man door it’s quite economical to heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air conditioner in the hot summer. The shop is just north of my garage, but I’m based at 3BS (Midland) which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS. The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

You the one leaning on the shovel?  :-)

What? Me get dirty? Not a chance.  Besides it’s not greasy enough No, I’m the guy with little hair in a few farther down the page working on some lay-ups. What is a rat wall? Or rat wall type foundation?

If you look at the photo where the trench just inside the forms is visible…they pour the floor and then right on over into that trench. That forms the "rat wall" which is just an extension of the floor. In my case it’s 16 inches down. The reason for a "rat wall" which is a lot like a shallow foundation is to …discourage rats from making a home under the floor which can be a real problem when you only pour a slab. Around here a true foundation would have only been about a foot deeper and required one more course of cement blocks. Your interior looks like some of the hangars on Millionaire Row, out at my airport, ANE (Anoka-Blaine, MN). White metal on the inside walls, those are the hangars that have Citations and King Airs in them.

That is painted "barn metal" and costs about the same as dry walling the interior.  Actually the barn metal is more expensive, but takes far less labor to install. It’s a whole lot easier on your back too. <:-)) Those sheets weight a fraction of a dry wall sheet. You’ve measured, and the plane will fit out the door when finished, right? <g

That’s going to be an interesting exercise.  "THEORETICALLY" if the landing gear is on dollies, I *should* be able to take it out corner wise by sticking the tail in one corner next to the door, sliding the nose out, sliding the whole works forward and then sliding it sideways to take the tail out. OTOH, the wing is separate until final assembly and I may do that at the EAA building at 3BS.  I would like to put it together and do the engine testing before taking it to the airport.  That would reduce the final, final assembly to less than a week.  I plan on doing the flight testing, or at least the initial flight testing  with the plane only primered. Then again, I have more concerns about being too old to fly it by the time it’s done,  compared to getting it out of the shop. <sigh Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

I built a 25X35 shop about three years ago in Indiana.  No building codes applied so I could do what I wanted.  I made it pole (4X6 pressure treated) and put 6" concrete at the base of the poles to act as footers.  I did not use any other footer.  I framed between the poles with 2X4 and have a 4" concrete floor.  Walls are insulated and finished in drywall as is the ceiling (R25 blanket there).  It has one 9 foot garage door, a standard 32" entry door and four windows plus a standard shingle roof.  As I did all the work myself, I have no estimate of labor but I think I have about $8000 in all the materials.  All materials were purchased new so you may be able to do better with second-hand doors, windows, etc. It can be cooled easily with an 18,000 BTU window AC and a 4kW electric wall furnace is adequate for heating (except for cost) in all but the coldest parts of winter. Charlie Smith

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable hangar options….for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional stick (framed walls)? Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel. Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable end). Thanks. Joa

Response:

You the one leaning on the shovel?  :-) What is a rat wall? Or rat wall type foundation? Your interior looks like some of the hangars on Millionaire Row, out at my airport, ANE (Anoka-Blaine, MN). White metal on the inside walls, those are the hangars that have Citations and King Airs in them. You’ve measured, and the plane will fit out the door when finished, right? <g — Montblack ("Roger Halstead" wrote) <snips – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm

Response:

What’s a "rat wall"  ?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles…. I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete. The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone with a pole type construction finished in the same manner. The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat wall is thermal isolation.  I’d put a thermal barrier between the floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead board or styrofoam. Even with the two big doors plus the man door it’s quite economical to heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air conditioner in the hot summer. The shop is just north of my garage, but I’m based at 3BS (Midland) which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS. The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable hangar options….for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional stick (framed walls)? Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel. Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable end). Thanks. Joa

Depends on your local code. If you need to build a foundation with footings below the frostline it’s a lot cheaper to build a pole barn. If you’re planning a concrete floor and can build stick frame on a slab on grade it might be a bit cheaper. Your local lumber salesman should be happy to figure it out for you .

Response:

Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles…. — Dan D. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable hangar options….for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional stick (framed walls)? Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel. Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable end). Thanks. Joa

Response:

Pole barn is the way to go here in MI. The stick built version was 2x the cost of the poles….

I built a 28 by 40 foot shop. The floor is high strength concrete with a rat wall type foundation.  (I wish I had gone with a standard foundation although no problems with the rat wall).  We used stick built,, with one inch styrofoam over the outside covered with vinyl siding. The inside is barn metal which is what most use on the outside.  The walls are filled with roll insulation while the ceiling has 16 inches of cellulose blown in.  If condensation is not a problem I’d use the cellulose for insulation although the foam seals "tight". I also have one inch of styrofoam under the concrete. The cost (using a contractor) was little different than had I gone with a pole type construction finished in the same manner. The only reason I wish I had gone with a conventional foundation which would not have added more than a couple hundred dollars over the rat wall is thermal isolation.  I’d put a thermal barrier between the floor and the outside wall/foundation using either half inch bead board or styrofoam. Even with the two big doors plus the man door it’s quite economical to heat and I can keep it comfortable with a little window air conditioner in the hot summer. The shop is just north of my garage, but I’m based at 3BS (Midland) which is about 11.3 on the 337 radial from MBS. The second page of my G-III construction diary has some photos of the construction at http://www.rogerhalstead.com/glasair2.htm Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World’s oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

Response:

For anybody that is in construction or that has researched affordable hangar options….for an insulated steel sided and roofed hangar which is more affordable to build- post style (pole barn) or traditional stick (framed walls)? Our EAA chapter built a traditional stick hangar and insulated between the studs but a friend here at work built his hangar post style and just squished the insulation between the cross pieces and the steel. Ignore the hangar door (will use a sideways folding door on the gable end). Thanks. Joa

Response:

OT:near 100 today

Question:

I am so sick of this heat. Our house doesn’t have air conditioning,and I slept fitfully last night. When I got up today,the house was/is still icky,and we have to close it up so it doesn’t get worse. One of the joys (?) of not working in an air conditioned building. We could get an air conditioner…it used to be we could make it through the summer okay without one. Bleah. Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

Response:

Frankenmel wrote: > I am so sick of this heat. Our house doesn’t have air conditioning,and I slept > fitfully last night. When I got up today,the house was/is still icky,and we > have to close it up so it doesn’t get worse. One of the joys (?) of not working > in an air conditioned building. We could get an air conditioner…it used to be > we could make it through the summer okay without one.

I could not survive without ac. I hope you find a nice cool mall or movie to go to today. sue

Response:

>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >Date: 7/21/03 7:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time >I could not survive without ac

Well I am…somehow. >I hope you find a nice cool mall or >movie to go to today.

Actually,I plan to get my work done here in the studio today. The fan helps. It’s about 80 in here now. I have so much work to do after two wholesale orders in 24 hours and replenishing for next weekend that I just want to get down to business. Right now,I can feel the fan breeze,and it’s okay. Thanks for caring. Tomorrow will be *down* to 90 and then into the 80s. Sharon…………A warm toll-house cookie is an experience not unlike a religious epiphany.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Frankenmel wrote: >>From: Sue and Kevin Mullen kjmul…@comcast.net >>Date: 7/21/03 7:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time >>I could not survive without ac > Well I am…somehow. >>I hope you find a nice cool mall or >>movie to go to today. > Actually,I plan to get my work done here in the studio today. The fan helps. > It’s about 80 in here now. I have so much work to do after two wholesale orders > in 24 hours and replenishing for next weekend that I just want to get down to > business. Right now,I can feel the fan breeze,and it’s okay. Thanks for caring. > Tomorrow will be *down* to 90 and then into the 80s.

Sounds like you business is doing really good right now, I hope it continues…..sue

Response:

"Frankenmel" <franken…@aol.comDONT> wrote in message

news:20030721103227.28155.00000173@mb-m24.aol.com… > I am so sick of this heat. Our house doesn’t have air conditioning,and I slept > fitfully last night. When I got up today,the house was/is still icky,and we > have to close it up so it doesn’t get worse. One of the joys (?) of not working > in an air conditioned building. We could get an air conditioner…it used to be > we could make it through the summer okay without one. > Bleah.

It was like that  - high 80’s to a bit over 100 all last summer here in the NE.  Heat accompanied by high humidity.  It was the hottest summer I could remember.  I have one a/c in the back bedroom where my PC, TV, radio, & a bed are, so I can retreat to this room when it gets too awful.  (Or do errands or go for a drive, since the car has a/c!) In school the classrooms have no a/c – just the offices & library.  It can get *horrible* in there in Sept. & June.   The worst ever was when we had over a week of super heat & my classroom’s temp crept from 80-ish up to 96

240V outlet code question

Question:

See http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=howTo&p=Improve/220outlet.html&rn=Rig… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 240V receptacles for an A/C does not require 4 conductors (two hot, 1 neutral and one equipment ground) like a range/oven.  An outlet for an A/C may be installed (not required) with the four conductors and you would wire nut the neutral, since it is not needed for your A/C, but four conductors are not required.   You may choose to do this for future applications. Typically if your A/C is 240V, it does not have a 120V fan. A oven/range needs 120/240V (or a four conductor connection, 4 prong) since the some of the equipment on the unit will use 240V and some 120V. I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff —

      Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

For "pure" 220v devices, only two power wires are truly required. In Russia, for instance, they use 220v and two prong outlets for everything. The rest is for safety purposes. I understand why they need two power wires and ground here. But I am not sure why they need neutral for 220volt here. The current is conducted from one energized wire to another. i

Because, phase to neutral is 220V there, as opposed to 120V in North America. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know about the US Code, but from what I have read on a number of forums, all 120/240V circuits require a four wire/four prong outlet. Previously they could use a cable without a ground, and the appliance used the neutral for a ground. I am sure that for pure 240V items, only 2 wires plus ground would be required. When the item comes with a moulded plug you will need to use a matching receptical, whether it is twistlock or some other configuration, and matching wires in the cable will be needed. I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff

Response:

240V receptacles for an A/C does not require 4 conductors (two hot, 1 neutral and one equipment ground) like a range/oven.  An outlet for an A/C may be installed (not required) with the four conductors and you would wire nut the neutral, since it is not needed for your A/C, but four conductors are not required.   You may choose to do this for future applications. Typically if your A/C is 240V, it does not have a 120V fan. A oven/range needs 120/240V (or a four conductor connection, 4 prong) since the some of the equipment on the unit will use 240V and some 120V.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

For "pure" 220v devices, only two power wires are truly required. In Russia, for instance, they use 220v and two prong outlets for everything. The rest is for safety purposes. I understand why they need two power wires and ground here. But I am not sure why they need neutral for 220volt here. The current is conducted from one energized wire to another. i – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know about the US Code, but from what I have read on a number of forums, all 120/240V circuits require a four wire/four prong outlet. Previously they could use a cable without a ground, and the appliance used the neutral for a ground. I am sure that for pure 240V items, only 2 wires plus ground would be required. When the item comes with a moulded plug you will need to use a matching receptical, whether it is twistlock or some other configuration, and matching wires in the cable will be needed. I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff

Response:

Well, for what it is worth, the air conditioner is in all liklihood a 120/240 device since the blower motor is almost certainly 120V; only the compressor runs at 240.

Not necessarily. Just about all 220V A/Cs are 220V through out, not requiring neutral. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

    The next A/C may well require the neutral, even if this one does not (most do).  Who knows what the next person may do with that plug.  Even if it is not required, it would be a good idea. — Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1  It’s Irish Math

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. [...]

There is always the rule that a safety ground should be a dedicated wire which normally carries no current. The neutral wire may carry current if the 220V load is not perfectly balanced. Now I suppose in this case the safety ground will only make a connection to the outlet box.

Response:

I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home.

Yep, that’s big all right.   I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it.

The simplest solution is to just pull 12/3 w/ground to the box.  Then you could install any receptacle (NEMA 6-20?) you want or swap the AC plug to any plug you want (NEMA 14-20?).   I think in the future we are going to see more and more NEMA 14 plugs and receptacles, so I would probably go that route. You could avoid the whole plug and receptacle thing by mounting a disconnect and hard wiring the AC unit into it.   — http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Response:

I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)

… without a doubt, you should do what the code for your area states. Now, as to explaining why…well, at a guess, they are trying to cover the future changes that someone may make.  that 240 volt receptacle may be converted to 2X15 amp circuits for whatever reason.  then the neutral is required.   …thehick

Response:

Well, for what it is worth, the air conditioner is in all liklihood a 120/240 device since the blower motor is almost certainly 120V; only the compressor runs at 240.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.) … without a doubt, you should do what the code for your area states.

Don’t worry, I plan to.  I’m not one of those people who thinks the NEC is out to get me, I believe in doing a job right, and doing it once. :-)  I’m just trying to understand the theory behind it.  It just doesn’t make sense to me to have a requirement to run a wire that won’t even end up connected to anything. That and the fact that I’d prefer to have all my proverbial ducks in a row before applying for the permit, so I don’t look to the building department like a hack. I just moved here from another state, so I’ve never applied for a permit here before.  It’s a small town (pop 5,000) – first impresions and all. :-)  I’d rather give them a plan that’s been well thought out. Now, as to explaining why…well, at a guess, they are trying to cover the future changes that someone may make.  that 240 volt receptacle may be converted to 2X15 amp circuits for whatever reason.

Well, sure, I would just think the code would require the cable to be updated then.  Someone *could* in the future to decide to put 20 duplex receptacles in every room of the house, but code doesn’t require me to run a circuit up every wall stud just in case. ;-) —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

Well, for what it is worth, the air conditioner is in all liklihood a 120/240 device since the blower motor is almost certainly 120V; only the compressor runs at 240.

That makes sense, except that it only has a three-prong plug, so it would have to be using the ground as neutral.  Since it’s a new unit (bought last fall), I would have thought it would have been equipped with the proper plug for what current code requires.  (And yes, I know what happens when one assumes, but really.) :-)  Is how air conditioners are still commonly wired? If that’s the case, I’ll need to put a new cord on the air conditioner. Sigh.  Why do my projects always get more complicated than I initially planned? :-) Thanks for the info!  - Jeff —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

I don’t know about the US Code, but from what I have read on a number of forums, all 120/240V circuits require a four wire/four prong outlet. Previously they could use a cable without a ground, and the appliance used the neutral for a ground. I am sure that for pure 240V items, only 2 wires plus ground would be required. When the item comes with a moulded plug you will need to use a matching receptical, whether it is twistlock or some other configuration, and matching wires in the cable will be needed.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire? It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable." In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

I need to add a 240V-20A outlet for a largish window air conditioner in my home. I have read several places that code now requires all 240V outlets to be four wire (i.e. three wire plus ground.)  This doesn’t make sense to me however, since if the outlet is for a device that uses only 240V (as opposed to both 120 & 240V, like a range or drier), then the neutral wire won’t do anything, other than run from the panel to the outlet.  The device plugged in won’t even be connected to it. I realize that it was once permissible to wire a drier with only three wires and that now four are required, and I can understand the logic for that code change, since there really should be a dedicated safety ground, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring a neutral wire in a 240V-only circuit.  Shouldn’t two hots and a ground be all that is needed, both electrically and for proper protection? Is what I’ve read incorrect?  Possibly just a misinterpretation of the newish requirement for split-voltage receptacles to be four wire?   It’s not just on-line or in other suspect places where I’ve picked up this info, I’ve seen it in electrical books as well.  For instance, Home Depot’s "Wiring 1-2-3" book states in the "Adding a 240V Receptacle" chapter: "…Recent codes require four-wire receptacles; three-wire receptacles were once acceptable."   In the very next paragraph they then seem to contradict that however, stating: "a 20-amp, 240-volt receptacle for a window air conditioner or other appliance requires only 12/2 cable…" (and the illustration shows a standard three-slot, 240V-20A receptacle – with two hots and a ground.) The next section of this book is "Adding a 120/240 Volt Receptacle", so it would seem that the above quotes are meant only to apply to 240V receptacles. I’m confused. :-(  - Jeff —       Please remove "ziggzigg" from my e-mail address when replying.

Response:

door bell transformer

Question:

The battery type is not so bad. I use one and the 9v battery in the button has lasted about 3 years. Probably its shelf life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a transformer in the garage that is for the door bell. It is always hot.  This seems wasteful of electricity, since the door bell only is used about once a day. Can the transformer be replaced with some kind of state of the art upgrade that is more efficient? Well Dick you’ve got a lot of answers many of which are silly because your concern is misplaced.  Your transformer should not be hot, mine runs maybe 10-15 degrees above ambient room temperature.  If your is truly hot (can’t hold your finger on it) then you should likely replace it with a new transformer. Transformers inherently use little electricity when not in use because the primary allows very little electricity to flow when the secondary is not connected.  It probably uses less than 5 watts, that’s probably less then 30 cents a month. But if it worries you, change to a radio controlled battery operated unit.  Then you get to buy batteries, which probably costs at least 4x what you present system does.

Response:

So are you suggesting replacing the hot 12 volt transformer with a new 24 volt transformer with resistor?  I don’t have a furnace, just a heat pump.

P&M Certainly not a *new* 24 volt transformer. One you already have plugged in and running now. If you don’t have one like that, it would be a terrible idea.  I don’t know if heat pumps have a transformer that runs all the time.  But since they use a remote thermostat, and not just a gas filled tube, like a window air conditioner does, they may have a transformer that is always running, unless you turn some master OFF switch. And even then I’m not disagreeing with most of the advice in the other posts.  But if one thinks it important to get rid of that transformer, and if you want a project, I think this would do it. I myself have a problem, that with the radio on, I can only hear the doorbell when I’m on the first floor.  I usually can’t hear them knocking either.  When I spent a lot of time in the basement, I got a clapper bell that I connected in the basement right next to the transformer. IIRC that kept the first floor bell from ringing right. At any rate, there was a nice doorbell marked way down for clearance and I bought that with the plan to put the old doorbell in the basement.  By then, neither worked well, and I had to buy a bigger transformer.  I can’t remember if it gets hot or even if I checked. With the bigger transformer (higher voltage?), the first floor doorbell rang so loud that it set off the burglar alarm via it’s glass breakage detector, when I wasn’t home.  So I had to put a resistor in the circuit with that bell only to lower the volume of that bell. Then I was done.  But…. Now I spend a lot of time on the second floor and there’s no simple way to run a wire up here.  I inherited from my mother a wireless doorbell (because her apartment only had a knocker and running wires to the back bedroom is also difficult in an apartment) Is Sunset House still around.  I think that is where I got it for her. I plan to use that for my second floor.  The ringer will use a tiny amount of electicity, I have to check but I think it is less than 3 watts. And I plan not to mount the button outside, but to power it from the same circuit that runs the current doorbell, so there’ll only be one button and I shouldn’t need batteries at all.  I’ll bypass the button/switch/battery portion of the button, and add a diode, and use the button/AC portion of the current doorbell, with a resistor to lower the voltage for this part of the circuit to 1.5 or 3 volts, to power and switch on the transmitter.  I’ll mount it next to the current transformer. It should be pretty easy to do, and should work, and if it doesn’t, I’ll learn something. I have variable resistors in most ranges, a big box of resistors of most values, and a variable resistor box, designed for designing or testing, where I can vary a resistance from less than 1 ohm to millions of ohms just by turning some knobs.  The box is the newest of the three and will make things go pretty quickly.  I don’t think I will depend on measuring the resistance of the transmitter to calculate the resistor I need.  I’ll just start very very high, and turn the knobs down until the voltage across the transmitter measures the same as the battery(s) I took out.  It’s a better way to do it anyhow**, but I figured you didn’t have all that stuff.  After I get a value that works well, I’ll just insert a fixed resistor of near that value in the circuit. BTW, if it is hard to do it with only one resistor in series, with a small load like doorbells, one can use two resistors in series, and connect the load across only one of them.  If you want I’ll go into detail. **And I gave the wrong method earlier, because few people have an AC ammeter.  Maybe at a low frequency of 60cps one can just use an ohmmeter to measure resistance, even of a doorbell coil. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your furnace transformer is 24 volts not 12. But I don’t want to give up.  That’s just typical of me. On a device with a known draw, one can calculate the resistor needed, in series, to drop a known voltage to the voltage needed. That’s how I ran my good radio from a 6 volt car in a 12 volt car with a comparatively bad radio.  Special high wattage resistors were sold for that purpose. In this case a resistance equal to the impedance of the doorbell** would probably drop the voltage from 24 to 12.  This would mean that the doorbell would use twice as many watts as it does now, when it is being used.  But that’s a teeney amount. IIUC doorbell impedance or any impedance of a coil that uses AC current cannot be measured directly.  Instead, the current voltage should be measured across the doorbell when it is in use, the current should be measured and the impedance in ohms calculated.  Or maybe in this case, you *can* just use an ohmmeter. -= HvacTech2 <=-

Meirman If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Response:

So are you suggesting replacing the hot 12 volt transformer with a new 24 volt transformer with resistor?  I don’t have a furnace, just a heat pump. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your furnace transformer is 24 volts not 12. But I don’t want to give up.  That’s just typical of me. On a device with a known draw, one can calculate the resistor needed, in series, to drop a known voltage to the voltage needed. That’s how I ran my good radio from a 6 volt car in a 12 volt car with a comparatively bad radio.  Special high wattage resistors were sold for that purpose. In this case a resistance equal to the impedance of the doorbell** would probably drop the voltage from 24 to 12.  This would mean that the doorbell would use twice as many watts as it does now, when it is being used.  But that’s a teeney amount. IIUC doorbell impedance or any impedance of a coil that uses AC current cannot be measured directly.  Instead, the current voltage should be measured across the doorbell when it is in use, the current should be measured and the impedance in ohms calculated.  Or maybe in this case, you *can* just use an ohmmeter. -= HvacTech2 <=-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi meirman, hope you are having a nice day On 04-Jul-03 At About 11:05:28, meirman wrote to All m There is a transformer in the garage that is for the door bell. It is m always hot.  This seems wasteful of electricity, since the door bell m only is used about once a day. Can the transformer be m replaced with some kind of state of the art upgrade that is more I m efficient? m rarely use my AC and turn it off, but I think there is a 12 vo m volt? probably not 6 volt) transformer in the furnace which might m be on all the time.  Someone who’s handy could run a couple wires m from there and connect them to the two wires that are now connected m to the output of the transformer.  Then one still has to open the m junction box and disconnect the transformer that’s there now. Your furnace transformer is 24 volts not 12.

You’re right.  It’s been 20 years and I forgot. But I don’t want to give up.  That’s just typical of me. On a device with a known draw, one can calculate the resistor needed, in series, to drop a known voltage to the voltage needed. That’s how I ran my good radio from a 6 volt car in a 12 volt car with a comparitively bad radio.  Special high wattage resistors were sold for that purpose. In this case a resistance equal to the impedance of the doorbell** would probably drop the voltage from 24 to 12.  This would mean that the doorbell would use twice as many watts as it does now, when it is being used.  But that’s a teeney amount. IIUC doorbell impedance or any impedance of a coil that uses AC current cannot be measured directly.  Instead, the current voltage should be measured across the doorbell when it is in use, the current should be measured and the impedance in ohms calculated.  Or maybe in this case, you *can* just use an ohmeter. -= HvacTech2 <=- .. I planted some birdseed. A bird came up. Now what do I feed it?

LOL             Meirman If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Response:

Hi meirman, hope you are having a nice day On 04-Jul-03 At About 11:05:28, meirman wrote to All  m There is a transformer in the garage that is for the door bell. It is  m always hot.  This seems wasteful of electricity, since the door bell  m only is used about once a day. Can the transformer be  m replaced with some kind of state of the art upgrade that is more I  m efficient?  m rarely use my AC and turn it off, but I think there is a 12 vo  m volt? probably not 6 volt) transformer in the furnace which might  m be on all the time.  Someone who’s handy could run a couple wires  m from there and connect them to the two wires that are now connected  m to the output of the transformer.  Then one still has to open the  m junction box and disconnect the transformer that’s there now. Your furnace transformer is 24 volts not 12.  -= HvacTech2 <=- .. I planted some birdseed. A bird came up. Now what do I feed it?             ___ TagDude 0.92

Extension cords with A/C

Question:

My window air conditioner says not to use an extension cord, but gives no reason. I am guessing they want to be sure that a #16 cord is not used with the 13a unit.  A short #14 cord ought to be okay. Is there correct, or is there more to it? Thanks.

Response:

My window air conditioner says not to use an extension cord, but gives no reason. I am guessing they want to be sure that a #16 cord is not used with the 13a unit.  A short #14 cord ought to be okay. Is there correct, or is there more to it?

Using an extension cord with any heavy-current device, especially one that has a very high startup current, is a bad idea. You definitely don’t want to use a common household extension cord, which is the main reason for the prohibition. There are several electrical safety issues involved. If you absolutely have to, use the shortest heavy-appliance or industrial cord you can find or make. The wire gauge should be at least one size larger than that in the appliance’s cord. I have a large compressor (similar electrically to an AC unit) that I occasionally need to use an extension cord with. I found that even a heavy-duty cord was too restrictive, and what would happen is the compressor would start and get to about 3/4 tank pressure, then blow the breaker. (The resistance of the extension cord caused a voltage drop that the motor tries to compensate for by pulling more current, eventually exceeding the breaker limit.) I use an extremely heavy duty "generator" cord with it now. No problems. — ||   Robert Heinlein lives. See www.nitrosyncretic.com   || ||     So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it?     ||

Response:

My window air conditioner says not to use an extension cord, but gives no reason. I am guessing they want to be sure that a #16 cord is not used with the 13a unit.  A short #14 cord ought to be okay. Is there correct, or is there more to it? Thanks.

An extension cord is meant to be temporary and should not be used for heavy-load appliances.  Install a receptacle outlet near your window A/C.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My window air conditioner says not to use an extension cord, but gives no reason. I am guessing they want to be sure that a #16 cord is not used with the 13a unit.  A short #14 cord ought to be okay. Is there correct, or is there more to it? Using an extension cord with any heavy-current device, especially one that has a very high startup current, is a bad idea. You definitely don’t want to use a common household extension cord, which is the main reason for the prohibition. There are several electrical safety issues involved. If you absolutely have to, use the shortest heavy-appliance or industrial cord you can find or make. The wire gauge should be at least one size larger than that in the appliance’s cord. I have a large compressor (similar electrically to an AC unit) that I occasionally need to use an extension cord with. I found that even a heavy-duty cord was too restrictive, and what would happen is the compressor would start and get to about 3/4 tank pressure, then blow the breaker. (The resistance of the extension cord caused a voltage drop that the motor tries to compensate for by pulling more current, eventually exceeding the breaker limit.) I use an extremely heavy duty "generator" cord with it now. No problems. — ||   Robert Heinlein lives. See www.nitrosyncretic.com   || ||     So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it?     ||

you never should use an ext. cord with an air compressor.  that is why they sell hoses to get the air to the job…..

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you never should use an ext. cord with an air compressor.  that is why they sell hoses to get the air to the job…..

True for the most part. However, some jobs are easier if I can get the compressor closer to the work area. — ||   Robert Heinlein lives. See www.nitrosyncretic.com   || ||     So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it?     ||

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JS: J My window air conditioner says not to use an extension cord, but gives no J reason. J J I am guessing they want to be sure that a #16 cord is not used with the 13a J unit.  A short #14 cord ought to be okay. J J Is there correct, or is there more to it? As someone else stated, ideally you add an outlet next to where you are placing the air conditioner.  As this is sometimes impractical, one uses a short extension with the proper ratings.  (They are available in the electrical departments.) I suppose the main reasoning is most people would try to use a dinkny extension cord to run the high-current appliance.  Another reason is the voltage drop in an under-rated extension.  Both are a fire hazard. When we had the addition built here and before the wiring was upgraded the construction guys tried running an extension from their saw outside to the basement using a 100′ or maybe 150′ extension.  Saw’s motor growled and didn’t get up to speed.  Heavier guage extension probably would have worked.  Ended up doing a bit of temporary patch- work to get the outside electrical circuit live again and they were able to plug in to a nearby outlet. –